Welcome to the home of The Grinning Goat.
This site has been established to serve the friends and customers that we have met while we owned and operated Tri-Quest South African Boer Goats. As many of your know, we sold all our goats and our herd name in 2007.
This site was developed in an effort to continue to supply you with Acid Pack Four Way.
The fact that I enjoy a bit of ‘whimsy’ in my life and my sincere love for all caprine lead to the art and name that grace this site.
Before you read on please KNOW we are NOT veterinarians nor do we portray one on T.V. or anywhere else.
Please read this page COMPLETELY and then read it AGAIN (especially if you have a goat that you suspect of having Urinary Calculi).
Any and all information and suggestions found herein is used by the reader at THEIR OWN discretion. If you choose to use any of the information or suggestions on this page you do so at your own choosing and you agree to hold the bearer of this page harmless of any liability.
Acid Pack 4-Way 2x is an acidifier that can be added to the drinking water of your herd . It has been found by many breeders to aid in the prevention of urinary calculi.
One must remember that Urinary Calculi is a complexed problem, normally created by management issue such as feed, water, hay etc. You can read more about urinary calculi by scrolling down to these topics:
- Treating Urinary Calculi
- Stress Calculi
- Please visit our online store to Order Acid Pack.
When using the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x the goal is to get the pH of the drinking water to a 5. Our water here at the farm is around a 7. For us to get our water to a pH of 5 we add 3/4 of a teaspoon of the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x to each gallon of water and this ‘treated’ water is the ONLY water source for the animals. Although does can get urinary calculi it does not seem to be as much of a problem for them because the difference in the Urinary system of the male vs female. Be sure to have YOUR water tested so you can be accurate in the use of the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x.
In our herd we put the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x in the water of all our male kids, starting out by using it in a creep area for them from the time they are a couple weeks old (at this time the young does also have access to the acidified water).
We typically wean out buckling at 60-70 days of age and they continue to receive the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x in their water. Once the bucklings are removed from the doelings we discontinue putting out the acidified water for the doelings.
The bucks continue to get the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x in their water, as a preventative, until they are around 8 -12 months old. Some folks ask why we provide the acidified water to our stock when we have such a perfectly balanced feed and we put out our state of the art minerals.
We do this because:
- Our water here is very hard
- Prevention is always better than treatment
- We sell a lot of stock and we never know where each goat will go – by using the acidifier we are providing a measure of protection to the stock of the new owner.
- Although we do not free feed our stock it seems that ‘young’ bucks that are fast growing seem to be the most susceptible to UC – hence prevention is the more prudent means of management.
Once a buck HAS AN ACTIVE CASE of UC the ‘treatment’ program is much more aggressive than the prevention program. The actual amount of Acid Pack 4-Way 2x given to a buck will depend on his age and weight and the severity of his blockage.
NOTE: If you know or suspect that your buck has Urinary Calculi we urge you to contact your Veterinarian. UC is NOTHING to fool around with. Swift and effective treatment is paramount in successful treatment of UC. WE ARE NOT VETERINARIANS and we are in NO WAY ‘prescribing’ this treatment – we are simply sharing what we have found to be successful in many situations. Please print this information along with Treating Urinary Calculi and Stress Calculi and share them with your veterinarian.
Typically for a buckling in the 50-70# range ONE LEVEL TEASPOON would be put into 60cc (two ounces) of water and the buck would drenched with this mix 3x a day,
CAUTION: be sure to read Treating Urinary Calculi as you must be VERY careful to NOT rupture the bladder. We STRONGLY urge you to enlist the assistance of your Veterinarian when treating UrinaryCalculi as it is IMPERATIVE to monitor the amount of urine in the bladder so as to avoid rupturing it. If the buck is totally blocked your vet may need to ‘tap’ the bladder (this is explained in the article Treating Urinary Calculi). If he is ‘dribbling’ urine you have a better chance at recovery, however, we have seen bucks that were totally blocked recover when the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x was used along with Veterinarian assistance as described in Treating Urinary Calculi.
If you are treating a larger/smaller animal then you would need to adjust the amount of Acid Pack 4-Way 2x given. An mature buck (250 pounds) could require TWO TABLESPOONS per treatment .
Please realize that using this method for dealing with UC is not a medical science. Each animal’s case of UC is individual and thus difficult to fully assess. Again we urge you to contact your Veterinarian and share this information with him.
Should you choose to use this method to address the problem of UC and you should choose to use the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x you are doing so at your own discretion. No guarantees for the success of treatment or prevention are given or implied (Order info is at the bottom of this page.).
Dealing with Urinary Calculi
Before you read on please understand that we are NOT Veterinarians. We are simply sharing with you what we have found in our journey along the road within “herd management of goats”. The treatment shared below is not 100% successful. Some animals still die. We do know that some goats have lived when this treatment was used. Maybe they would have lived anyway, with no treatment or with another treatment. All we can share is what we have experienced using THIS method.
Currently we do know that the balance of Calcium and Phosphorus is an important factor to the prevention of UC. The problem with this is that even though you may have a balanced feed and mineral supplement you can’t always figure for your hay and pasture or the fact that certain minerals in the water that your stock is drinking can bind out various elements.
That along with the fact that some animals are worse than others about picking out their favorite ingredients from their feed often make the prevention of UC a real challenge.
We also know that UC can be brought on by stress, especially the stress of transportation. It is not uncommon for animals to have reduced fluid intake during times of travel which seem to increase the potential of UC.
It seems we are hearing from more and more breeders that are experience UC problems and need to know what they can do to TREAT a buck or wether that has an active case of UC.
During the past year we have had the opportunity to interact with several different breeders that have been experiencing UC within their herds and to follow the treatment of several individual animals.
In the following text we will attempt to share with you the procedure used on the animals we were involved with in a hope that this information my prove helpful to you and your veterinarian. Please note – WE ARE NOT VETERINARIANS and urge you to consult YOUR OWN LOCAL vet for assistance in treating UC and any other illness you are experiencing in your herd.
How to identify a buck with UC
The first signs of UC are normally noticed when the breeders sees the animal stretched out attempting to urinate, usually either dripping what appears to be urine from the end of the penis or forcefully straining with NO urine appearing at all. Sometimes the breeder’s first thought is that the animal is constipated – but constipation is not very common in goats and UC should be your FIRST thought when you see a male goat of any age stretched out in the ‘urinating position’ and you do not see a stream of urine flowing. Sometimes you may even see the buck ‘pulsing’ a bit and curling his upper lip . On occasion you will find a buck (kid or adult) that seems to just lay down all the time and upon closer inspection you will find that the belly around the penis area is wet or damp. This is usually caused from urine leaking while the animal is laying down and should be considered a SERIOUS cause for concern.
The next question is WHAT TO DO???
The first thing is to take a closer look. Catch up the buck and LOOK at the penis. Easy to say – but not always so easy to do!
Depending on the size of the animal (might be necessary to have some help on hand here) the best way we have found to expose the penis is as follows; Standing behind the buck , set him on his rump with his spine resting against your legs. Having him slightly ‘slouched’ over – bend over him and reach directly behind the scrotum (this is between the scrotum and the tail) at the base of the scrotum, there is a ‘magic’ spot that you can put pressure on and when doing can ‘extend’ the penis. At this point you should be able to see the HEAD of the penis. A healthy penis head will be smooth and a healthy pink color and you should see small blood vessels on it. If the head is purple, gnarled or angry looking you have trouble and we suggest at this point a trip to your veterinarian is advised.
Removal of the urethra process has proven to be helpful in treating UC. Ideally letting your veterinarian do this and having his assistance and direction in treating the animal is ourfirst choice.
The urethra process is the string or worm like extension on the end of the penis that the buck uses to ‘spray’ urine with. The removal of the urethra process doe not normally effect the bucks fertility.
It is helpful to have a damp washcloth (not ‘wet’ but just good and damp) to hold onto the penis with and a sharp pair of suture scissors (small manicure scissors work well and I was just told that a large pair of toenail / fingernail clippers will also work) cut off the urethra process as close to the head of the penis as you can. There is no advantage of leaving any of the urethra process in place. The urethra process is VERY narrow and one of the first places that stones and grit will accumulate and plug up the plumbing. AGAIN – having your veterinarian to do this is the recommend.
Once the urethra process is removed sometimes you will get a good urine flow, sometimes just a dribble and sometimes no relief at all.
Ideally your veterinarian will have a sonogram machine and can check the bucks bladder to see how full it is. Quite frequently by the time you have noticed there is a problem the bladder is full enough that is in danger of rupturing.
Your VETERINARIAN can ‘TAP’ the bladder, using an 18-19 gauge spinal needle AFTER anesthetizing the animal. PLEASE — DO NOT attempt to ‘TAP’ the bladder yourself . The animals needs to be immobilized COMPLETELY and an anesthetic is required to do this. Also, a comprehensive understanding of the anatomy and the procedure is needed and your veterinarian will also understand which anesthetics may exacerbate the problem.
Understand that tapping the bladder is done to BUY TIME for further treatment to work. Tapping the bladder by itself will NOT cure the problem because the problem is BLOCKAGE.
We have found that by drenching the animals with an effective ACIDIFIER, along with the proper antibiotics to address possible infection and possibly special drugs to help relax the urethra many animals have been saved .
You need to monitor the fluid intake and OUT FLOW of the buck while you are IN TREATMENT with your veterinarian so that you can keep a close eye on the bladder. We find that having the veterinarian check the bladder every 36 hours by sonogram is advised, this lessen the chance of rupture.
The ACIDIFIER we have used is mixed in a heavy concentration at first and the animal is drenched with with an appropriate amount depending on the age and weight of the animal. Then the acidifier is added to the goats daily water rations for several months at the least and better yet as an on going attempt at prevention.
*PLEASE NOTE: Vinegar will NOT work as an acidifier!
Acid Pack 4-Way 2x is available through us and is listed in our NUTRITION section under Product Listing.
If your Veterinarian would like to know more about this procedure please have him/her contact us at 417 327-2774 and we will put them in touch with our veterinarian.
***Please note that the company that makes the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x does not manufacture this product nor endorse it as a treatment or prevention of UC. The suggestion to use this product to treat UC was made to us by our nutritionist and treatment was deemed successful. We are simply sharing with you what has worked in the field. ***
The following was shared by Donna of Safehaven Nubians*
Subject: anionic salts used to prevent stones
Apple cider vinegar does not work to prevent urinary stones. No way, no how. The “acidifying agent” of vinegar is acetic acid. The bacteria in a goat’s rumen make tons of acetic acid as a part of digestive process.
What you are feeding them is literally a drop in the bucket compared to what they naturally make themselves.
Here are a couple of the many testimonials we have had from folks that have used the Acid Pack:
– Please send me three more packets of the Acid Pack 4-Way 2x. I really appreciate this medication. It has literally saved his life.I HIGHLY recommend it over the ammonium Chloride. The improvement time was So much faster. Thank you so much, again. L.K. from PA
– Please send me three packets of the acidifier Acid Pack 4-Way 2x My buck continues to do well. Check enclosed.. D.C. from OK
Stress Related Calculi
by Wythe Quarles
I keep reading of goat owners having calculi problems or expressing concern about this subject. So I thought it appropriate that my first post to the group be on this subject since I am currently helping an owner in GA work through a problem with a young buck that he received via air about 2 weeks ago. The problem started for his buck about 10 days after receipt.My only personal experience with this problem in 15 years of raising Toggs occurred in the fall of 1989, 10 days after having a buck flown in from NH.My nutritionist and I agree that these occurrences are quite different from true calculi, though the results are quite often the same unless your vet knows what to do.The above events were simply stress related. Six to fourteen hours in transit will cause stress. Stress produces cortisol, which causes the breakdown of body tissues – there is a change in blood pH. Cortisol causes the precipitation and transport of metals in the blood. Added to this is restricted water intake. These free flowing calculi are due to pH changes and show up as “grit”, that has precipitated in the urine. This event is akin to an experiment in a chemistry lab where a second type of solution is added to a saturated solution and visible precipitation drops to the bottom of the beaker.This type of calculi is event driven i.e. the stress of transport, an injury or infection that alters the blood pH of the animal.
The other type of calculi is diet related and concerns epithelial tissue. This is the tissue which lines the tubes and cavities of the body (has one or more layers of cells) that aid in the excretion of waste products and the assimilation of nutrients. A diet deficient in vitamin A causes nidus to develop where calculi can form in the epithelial tissue. This process is akin to a polyp developing in the colon and is not unlike the process that leads to a heart attack. Healthy epithelial tissue requires adequate vitamin A in the diet. The change in the proteins of pelleted rations can also contribute to this problem. The heat generated in the pelleting process causes the proteins to become sticky and adhere to certain areas. This is especially true of soy. Lack of adequate vitamin A in a buck’s diet is a much bigger contributing factor. Minerals must be balanced in the ration and of high bioavailability. The same is true of the mineral mix.
I hope that these comments have began to explain how these problems are similar yet different and how the outcome for one, if properly treated, can be different from the other.
We are working on the formulation of a product that will assist in the prevention of the release of this stress-related grit, especially in transport.
Please visit our online store to Order Acid Pack.
When ordering be sure to include full mailing address and a phone number.
Please Email us at Grin@TheGrinningGoat.com if you have questions.